Healing Heroines: Women's Stories of Grief, Chronic Illness, & Healing

This special Healing Heroines compilation brings together real women speaking honestly about grief, chronic illness, anxiety, faith, motherhood, and the slow rebuilding of self-trust — not from a place of having it all figured out, but while they’re still living it.

We created the Healing Heroines series to make healing feel more human, more possible, and less lonely. These clips capture some of the most tender and illuminating moments so far — reminders that there is no single path forward, and that change often begins quietly: with small shifts, supportive relationships, and compassion replacing self-judgment.

What You Will Learn

• [00:03:23] Why community plays a critical role in grief, and how shared experiences can normalize emotions that feel isolating or confusing
• [00:05:34] How giving yourself permission to grieve without a timeline can reduce internal pressure and self-judgment
• [00:10:06] What it looks like to trust your body’s capacity to heal when conventional medical answers fall short
• [00:12:58] How feeling empowered—rather than “fixed”—can change the relationship you have with chronic symptoms
• [00:13:31] Why consistent, small acts of care often create more stability than waiting for big emotional breakthroughs
• [00:15:58] How reframing personal traits as strengths can support self-acceptance and emotional clarity
• [00:18:45] What compassionate accountability can look like during periods of physical pain, stress, and major life transitions
• [00:27:25] How specific spiritual experiences can open curiosity about life, death, and connection beyond the physical world

Resources Mentioned

• Hiring Heaven by Jean Slatter

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Chandler Stroud

Website | LinkedIn | Instagram

Mixing and editing provided by Next Day Podcast.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Chandler Stroud: Hey guys, it's Chandler and welcome to the Healing Heroes. 

[00:00:04] I promise you,

[00:00:08] I'm Chandler Stroud, an executive wife and busy mom of two who after years of living with anxiety health struggles and an unshakeable feeling like I should be happier, made a profound discovery that changed everything. Join me on a journey where unexpected paths lead to healing and more happiness. On this show, we will explore unconventional ways to unlock more joy in your own life.

[00:00:38] With the help of my very own healers and trusted advisors, the healing heroes.

[00:00:49] Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Healing Heroes Podcast. I'm your host Chandler, and I'm so grateful you decided to tune in today because we are gonna do something very special as we step into a new year. I wanted to start it by letting you hear from the women who are actually doing the work. This episode that you're about to listen to is a compilation of moments from our healing heroines, women who felt stuck.

[00:01:18] Overwhelmed at a crossroads or in the depths of their grief, but chose to seek support and healing. Each of these women are heroines worked with one or more of my healing heroes, the practitioners, teachers, and guides that you hear from on the show on a regular basis. To better understand themselves and begin healing in a way that was right for them.

[00:01:45] Before we dive in, I wanna pause and quickly just say thank you to each of these women for coming on the show. Thank you for your honesty, for your vulnerability, for your willingness to share your stories, often in the middle of the process in hopes. That it might help someone else listening feel less alone.

[00:02:11] It is no small feat to speak about our journeys openly, and I am deeply grateful that you trusted me and our listener community to have that kind of access to your inner world and most personal experiences. So thank you each and every one of you. If you're listening and wondering whether change is possible for you, I hope these voices offer some reassurance, some inspiration, and maybe a little permission to begin right where you are.

[00:02:50] Let's get into it.

[00:02:57] Candace Hewitt. 

[00:02:59] Candace: Grief needs a community. It can't be done alone. So early in my grief, what I found comfort in was widows grief groups that I found on Instagram. And you know, while Instagram and social media, there are so many, you know, bad things about it, there's so many unbelievable and beautiful things about it at the same time.

[00:03:23] And. It gave me a community of women who had been through something similar and all the things that I was feeling that I didn't understand. Was part of grief and sort of it, it was normalized by, I didn't feel like I was the only one going through what I was going through. And it eventually led me to, you know, first I kind of took a step back with these groups and I wasn't really involved.

[00:03:54] I was more of a bystander. I would listen. To meetings that we had, I wouldn't really participate. And then I found myself signing up for a widow's retreat out in Cal, uh, Colorado, which I went to completely by myself, not knowing anyone. And it was a group of 16 women that just got together. And, and that was transformative.

[00:04:18] And that was, you know, two years after Rusty had passed away. So all of this work that I've been had. Done it. It also has to be done on your own time and when you're ready for it. And I think what happens with anyone who's grieving widows, widowers children, it, it gets rushed by society. Hmm. And because it's not fully understood by everyone, and it's hard.

[00:04:49] We're all, we're all faced with facing hard and it's uncomfortable. And so people sort of expect this timeline of after you're okay, well you're good. And the reality is, is the grief never goes away. There's an ebb and a flow to it. It changes. It becomes less hard and less harsh, but it doesn't go away. It changes, and I think for anyone who can resonate with this, I think finding patience in yourself and grace, giving yourself grace to feel all the feels and know that some days like.

[00:05:34] We're not gonna be as good as others, and that's okay.

[00:05:42] Chandler Stroud: Jodi Constantino and Hero, Katie Wee. Was there a moment that whether weeks, months, even years later, that you decided you wanted to go on a more intensive healing journey, or was that a slow process for you? 

[00:05:58] Jodi: I'd say it was a slow burn. It was, it took. Probably about nine months for me. And that's of, I continued, I did the grief counseling twice a week.

[00:06:10] I joined a, um, support group for parents who have lost children in all different ways. And that's a monthly group. So I was doing some things like that. I was doing sound baths. You know, when you hit that kind of bottom, you're like, I will try absolutely anything. Um, and. Things I had previously been afraid to try.

[00:06:30] I'm like, I don't care. Like take me, take me. If it kills me, take me. I, I just, um, you get to that place where you, it's not that you yourself are considering self-harm, it's more that, okay, if a car hit me, I'm okay with that today. Like, I'm okay. Like if it, if something took me out. It's fine. And I had these, you know, two other little kids, right, that wanted Christmas and wanted Halloween and wanted, you know, wanted all the things and, and I was just trying to make things as normal for them.

[00:07:01] So honestly, like those first nine months were such survival months. A lot of people in my shoes say they can't remember a lot of the first year at all. I imagine I can remember it. Um. But it was, you know, I crawled through it. I definitely crawled through it, and I would say around the nine month mark, I was starting to have feelings of like, okay.

[00:07:28] I think there's more for me to try than the things I've been trying. Right. And I happened to run across, honestly, you know, I say habitudes, not a coincidence. I, you know, I don't believe anymore. All of these things most definitely happen on purpose. And I became aware of Katie's happy camp and, and I'm like.

[00:07:50] What is this thing and who's she? I know. And so I had heard it like, um, on a podcast, you know, it was, um, through, um, Teddy, Teddy Milliamp, who I know Chandler, you know, you were connected with as well. And I had heard her talking about it. I thought, Hmm, that might be a thing. And I Googled it and I'm like, whoa, this is like an amazing thing.

[00:08:15] And, and I thought, okay, could I do this? And. All of a sudden, like when you're really at that point of like that depth, the support system you have really gets big around you. And, and maybe three years before that, I never would've been comfortable saying to even my partner right at the time, Hey, um, I'm gonna take off for four days and can you just watch my kids and take them to every activity and make sure they do their homework and make sure they take their medication.

[00:08:43] Like I never even would've thought about doing it. And then that was the first time where I thought. I'm outta here, like I'm gonna go do this thing. I and I signed up, um, pretty quickly thereafter. Yeah. And I just decided to go along.

[00:09:03] Chandler Stroud: Sam Picard and Hero, Karen Remley. 

[00:09:07] Sam: I think there's something always that's always been inside me that has known that the western medicine world isn't for me. I think that something about. Medications and. The kinds of clinical interventions that we use commonly in our country. The way that I grew up, my family and some of the, the way that, and I, I feel like the people around me, I mean, I work in a field where we heavily rely on the medical profession, so I am not, I am not criticizing it.

[00:09:40] I just, something inside of me said. Those things aren't going to work for me. And that's why I think they didn't work for me and it was about me instead of allowing everyone else. 'cause you know, you're in an an acute situation like that, people are really ready to tell you what you should do. And it's go to this kind of doctor and go to that kind of doctor and take this and do this.

[00:10:06] And there was something inside of me that was really s screaming. Your body has the ability. To fix this, I knew that I could fix this. There was something about me that knew that all along. And it wasn't until that moment, of course, somebody had referred me to Karen and we can talk about that. But, um, until that moment when I had that conversation, my first conversation with her, in which she affirmed what I already knew, she, she confirmed that.

[00:10:39] I had what it would take to, to fix what was wrong with me. So she's just the conduit. 

[00:10:46] Chandler Stroud: I love that. And that is, that is so, that's so Karen in all that she does. And I love hearing stories of how she's helped patients really feel empowered to heal themselves. So I love that that's the experience you had with her as well.

[00:11:01] What was different? About working with Karen, maybe what surprised you about MFR or maybe even her approach to healing. I'd love to hear about those first impressions. 

[00:11:11] Sam: Well, I have to tell you, when I started with Karen, the only thing I mentioned before that was actually making me feel okay. Um, the only place that I felt like the dizziness would go away is.

[00:11:25] I, I live across the street from a state park and I was running between four and six miles a day. Not like I never took a day off. I was just running like a mad woman because it made me feel better, right? Mm-hmm. And in that first conversation with Karen, I just couldn't wait. She, she was saying, yeah, yeah, she's listening to my story and, okay.

[00:11:46] And, and I said, you know what? I just gotta get this out. I said, if you ask me to stop running, I'm not gonna do that. 'cause I figured. She didn't want me to like stress my body in that way. And she goes, oh no, I want you to keep running. So, so what I loved about my conversation with her was that I knew that she would help me find what I needed to do for myself.

[00:12:08] Something that she said about just keep doing what you're doing. Stay, stay healthy, stay strong. I, I understand. She is the, the most, the, uh, embracing person that I have ever known. She's like, ready to meet you exactly where you are. Uh, it doesn't, there's no judgment. I said, I think I'm gonna pass out. And she goes, that's okay.

[00:12:31] I'll catch you. Oh my God, I'll catch you. And it's just so powerful. My life is not perfect, right? Like I still struggle with this, that, and the other thing. But there's so much of the time with this illness that I spent spinning my wheels, frantic, trying to find the answer and. She helped me understand right from that first conversation I had the answer, I know what to do.

[00:12:58] The human body knows how to heal itself, and she's just very good at pointing out all the ways that we can tap into that.

[00:13:10] Chandler Stroud: Lauren Owen and Hero, Zach Carlson. 

[00:13:14] Lauren: And one of the things that Zach and I talked about was it would be like these big grand things. So it's like once in a while there would be these massive. Fireworks and like everything was great and very high highs and super amazing versus like, Hey Zach, what if I just had like a sparkler every day?

[00:13:31] Like instead of having these major high fireworks shows, it was every day was like a sparkler. Every day we let that little sparkler and it was like, yes, we can do that. I can do that. And then we like, how are we gonna do that? And one of the. One of the small steps that we took was just once a week schedule something just for you.

[00:13:53] So not for the kids. Not for my friends. Just for what do I feel? What do I need this week, and is it sitting for an hour? And journaling, because I've done that. It's going to a yoga class. It's one week. I was like. I really feel like I haven't had a facial and I'm gonna go get a facial and doing that for 90 minutes and turning everything off and being like, Nope, no contact zone.

[00:14:15] So I think it's those small things, those everyday little sparklers that now you can really appreciate when it's the big fireworks versus like, okay, we're having this great moment, but now tomorrow I just go back to ho hum. 

[00:14:30] Chandler Stroud: That analogy brought tears to my eyes. It's so well articulated, and that is exactly what we are trying to do here and in life, right?

[00:14:38] Like healing is getting your sparkler to grow and glow brighter and brighter every day, versus these highs and lows. It's like coming back to life in the middle of your life. Yeah, and I have not heard anyone describe it quite like you just did, and it just really resonated. It was beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.

[00:15:01] Thank you. How has human design given you permission to accept, forgive, or even love yourself more through this process? 

[00:15:09] Lauren: It's the understanding of. It's who I am and there's nothing wrong with that. It's how do we take this thing that I thought like being a social chameleon that can't be a good thing.

[00:15:20] Like that means I don't know who I am. And turning that into like, this is your superpower. This is amazing. Like so you can get what this group and. Be this person and be happy and have fun, and then you can get with this completely different group and be this person and be amazing and be happy and have fun.

[00:15:39] So it was taking this thing that I always thought was like, what is wrong with me? Like, who am I? And going like, no, my identity is many identities. And that's, you know, one of the things that I've written down that I go back to when I'm feeling like, am I lost? Am I, what's happening? I go back to, okay, is this, oh, and that was another thing was, am I.

[00:15:58] Giving energy or am I getting energy? So am I, am I giving all of my energy to this group and still feeling, oh, do I fit in? I don't really fit in. Okay, that's not the group. Then I'm not living in my, well, maybe I fit in just fine. I'm not living in my authentic self being in this group, but if it's this relationship of giving and getting energy and this feels good and I feel good and I walk away and I wanna do it again.

[00:16:21] Then, yes, now I'm living in my authentic self,

[00:16:29] Chandler Stroud: Deidre, poque and Hero, Bonnie Heim. 

[00:16:32] Diedra: So much riding on the responsibility beyond it just being a bigger job. This was new territory for my business. There was a lot riding on getting it right, not just for me, but. For my company. And so it was, it was, it was hugely stressful. I will say there was something inside of me, and again, I, I anchor on my faith that said, no, you're you.

[00:16:59] You can do this. You know, you know, stop beating yourself up. Figure out what tools and resources you need. Keep trying. Don't lose hope. You can do this, you can do this. And so that little ember, you know, kept burning and, and I kept searching and, and it's just, it's just been great to see how far I've come in, in this period of time.

[00:17:26] Chandler Stroud: And I'm, I'm really excited to get there. I just, I'm really curious for other women who are listening and wondering this, was there a specific breaking point or trigger point where you knew something had to change? 

[00:17:38] Diedra: Sure. So, and, and Bonnie will remember this because she helped me through this period. My, my daughter was about to graduate from college.

[00:17:48] That's when we first began. That is exactly that when we began And you were nervous about it and I'm like, we can do it. We, we can do, it was, it was our first victory. But yeah, my daughter was graduating from college and we were not only going to be moving her completely out of her place and going through, getting all of her things home, but we were putting her on a plane to Greece.

[00:18:10] She was gonna be immediately heading out for an an A trip. And I, I remember feeling. Really not like, physically not feeling great. My knees hurt so bad, uh, and I had. Part of what was left over from that undiagnosed condition was chronic rheumatoid style pain. Like I had to get inflammation at my knees or my joints, and you never knew when it was coming and it would last longer than you wanted it to.

[00:18:45] And at this time I was having really bad, uh, knee pain and I just remember saying, God, if you can help me. Get through this and figure out what works. I will stick to it and I'll never turn back. And then I met Bonnie and what was great about this time was I was going to have about three weeks after I moved my daughter out, uh, to get accustomed to a new way of living and get accustomed to new habits.

[00:19:15] Uh, but Bonnie encouraged me to start. Even as we were moving my daughter out, she's, she said, listen, we could wait until the new year, but we could start now. You can do this. And it was just something about her saying, you can do this. And I did like with, and, and just knowing that I was able to do that and, and she made.

[00:19:42] The process. So simple. Uh, I literally, and I've never started anything, you know, the perfect Monday, you, you're young not gonna work. Right? Next Monday. Next Monday, right. Next Monday. Always next Monday, tomorrow. Right, right. Uh, but I, I believed her and. And she was right. I was able to start and we, I've never looked back.

[00:20:09] Chandler Stroud: Lexi Garber and Hero, Nicole Kim. What felt different about Nicole as a healer compared to other teachers you had had? And to build on that, I would love if you could share a moment maybe in yoga sound healing, or in Thai body work where you realized that this was more than just a class and it was something deeper for you.

[00:20:31] Lexi: Oh, I have so much to say there. So in terms of being a healer and not a teacher, you know, if, and, and you, and of course you are both, you know, I've experienced this, I feel like only, only once before I know two magical beings in my life and you're, you're one of them. And it's not something I know that you can codify or like qualify specifically.

[00:20:53] It's just that when you are open to that receiving that. You are giving it, and I think you give it to everyone. It's something that you have to, I think, hold on, I'm getting emotional. Something that, um, you have to hold onto. Right. So it's not, um, you're not an object. Like I'm not, I'm not, that makes you sound like an object that I wanna, like latch onto, but like, I would latch onto in, in, in a, in a barnacle way because it's, it's just that.

[00:21:23] Everything you offer from yoga, from sound, from intuitive healing, massage is all infused, I think with this like, I don't know how to describe it, but this, this inner projection of like love and goodness, um, and light. Intention, I think, and I think the intention piece, as you've all have talked about before, is something that separates kind of like an athletic yoga class from a more wholesome yoga class or a standard massage with a masseuse from a Thai massage.

[00:21:57] Right. I can speak to one moment. It's really fresh in my mind because it was very recent fall is when my, my cluster headaches typically start to to emerge and present themselves. IU there's usually a sign I can usually feel my head being off in a way it's hard to describe, um, but it's failing off. And so, you know, after a yoga class I was like, Nicole, we need, I gotta, I gotta get in there.

[00:22:23] And I think that we chose Thai body work, uh, versus intuitive healing, I think just for our schedules or something. Yeah. And so we did, we scheduled a, a time massage and it was wonderful. You're talking about a moment where I know that it's deeper and I know that it's something more than just kind of the surface or standard.

[00:22:39] I remember this one moment, we were like maybe halfway through, we were transitioning from lying like on my back to then, you know, the next part of it was lying on my stomach and I remember Nicole had her hands, she had her hands on maybe like my ankles or my calves or something like that. And I felt this incredible wave a wash over me.

[00:23:03] I wanna call it love. And that's what I told you. And maybe it is that, but like love and warmth and goodness. I don't know. It, it was so clear, so palpable. Uh, it was really special. I remember we kind of like stayed in that almost for a moment, and then we turned over and we kind of continued. But I shared it with you at the end and you were like, yeah.

[00:23:29] That's what that was. I promise you.

[00:23:36] Chandler Stroud: Liz Hutchinson and Hero. Kate Dello. 

[00:23:39] Liz: Okay. So what I've realized with the wild woman archetype, that definition for me means like the wild woman is everything. She is everything. And it's a mess. Because one day she's this, and then the next day she's that. And then the day after that she's this. And it's just a massive tornado of all the emotions and all the feelings and all the things.

[00:24:04] And it's fun 'cause it's a, it's a ride. It's a fun ride. And I've, I'm learning to see it that way. I'm learning to enjoy the depths of my emotion, the messiness of it, the, you know, now when I have my. When I have big emotions, I let myself lean into an emotional release, whatever that looks like. If I need to cry, I sob.

[00:24:29] I scream, I make noises, and I lean into that. I'm like, there's tears and snot all over me. My hair is a mess. I'm like, if I'm angry, I'm raging. I'm punching the shit outta my couch. I'm screaming at the top of my lungs. I'm stepping my feet on the floor, and I'm like letting it all out. So that wild tornado that's in me, you know, I choose a safe location.

[00:24:51] That's appropriate to do this stuff where I feel like I can let it all out, but I do. I let it all out and I accept it and, um, I'm really enjoying that side of myself. It's the. Acceptance and the welcoming and the enjoying of all the parts of me. 

[00:25:12] Chandler Stroud: That sounds amazing. And I actually think is so profound in a world where we're so careful to act and do and be a certain way.

[00:25:24] That it is, I think so freeing to just accept every part of yourself and allow yourself to enact those emotions however you're feeling them, versus feel like you have to be appropriate or stifle or judge them for what they are. I shouldn't be mad about this. I've got all these things and I just, I think what you're saying is really important.

[00:25:44] Really important. What advice would you give another woman who feels like she's living a version of herself that isn't quite true, Liz. Call Kate. Love that answer.

[00:26:00] Love that answer. 

[00:26:02] Liz: I know, but really like, I don't think we're meant to do this work alone. You know? I couldn't. I mean, I have the tools now to be able to do some of it on my own, but that's because I reached out to someone who was able to help me and give me the tools and help me explore the parts of myself that did feel authentic, you know?

[00:26:26] So I think that would be my advice is to. To reach out specifically to Kate,

[00:26:35] Chandler Stroud: Sarah Hardy Johnson and Hero Lee Morgan. I'm curious what specifically was it as you think about everything you were looking into at the time that drew you to seek out. A psychic medium in particular. And what were you hoping to find or feel? Do you recall going into that session? 

[00:26:55] Sarah: Well, I remember having low expectations.

[00:26:58] I remember constantly trying to reassure myself, like, don't expect for him to come through. He may not so like keep your expectations low. It probably won't be like it was on Netflix, you know? And I remember just being like, let's just see, like, let's just try. Worst case he doesn't show up. That's, I remember really making sure just to like keep the expectations super low.

[00:27:25] Little did I know Lee just blew my mind in every single way and has every single time we meet. Yeah. I mean I, I can share kind of one of the details from the first meeting that for me clinches it and is just. Something I share frequently. But yeah, on our very first meeting, she didn't know anything about me.

[00:27:43] She, you know, starts talking about how there's a father figure and he feels like he was young when he passed and all these details, and not far into it. She says, you know, he's talking to, he's telling me about a pocket watch in the closet of the townhouse, and he wants your son to have it. And I was like, what?

[00:28:02] Like I don't even know about this. So long story short, I named my son, his middle name is the same as my, my dad's een, and my dad was the fourth EEN Hardy. So I called my mom after our first meeting and I'm like, mom, did dad have a pocket watch? She was like, yes. It was a gift from his dad and from his grandfather and from his father, and.

[00:28:25] Now my son has the pocket watch. Well, I have it because he would, you know, break it, but I am holding onto it and it is like unbelievable the level of detail and specificity that she was sharing, not just in that one example. 

[00:28:41] Chandler Stroud: That is incredible. Not only that you knew that level of detail, Lee, but that it opened up this entire.

[00:28:50] Kind of moment and tradition in your family, Sarah, that you are able to see through? I mean, I can absolutely understand why he would wanna come back and communicate that and make sure that your son got that watch. What? What was that like the moment you found the watch? 

[00:29:10] Sarah: Well, it was more like after I spoke to my mom after the call.

[00:29:15] That was the moment where I was like, holy crap, something is going on. I was like, the whole day I really couldn't think about anything else but spirit. Spirit realm, whatever you wanna call it. I was like, can't concentrate on earthly matters when you get that information. I mean, I was like, this is so cool.

[00:29:35] I can't believe it. You know, I'm walking around and there's like angels watching me and they're. You know, maybe helping me get through whatever it was, like this whole thing was unlocked. It just, yeah, it blew open my, the door for me to just go and dive so much deeper into everything soul related after life.

[00:29:57] Calling on Angels while we're here. I'm reading a book right now called Hiring Heaven, and it's basically the concept of there's a whole plethora of angels waiting to be assigned a duty, and we need to give them that permission and ask them and just, just ask, and preferably say it out loud, but they're waiting to help us.

[00:30:17] And I firmly believe in that.

[00:30:23] Chandler Stroud: Stephanie Bastek and Hero, Jacque de Pur, 

[00:30:27] Stephanie: I'd always had questions about like, why are we here? Is there God? Like, what is the meaning of life? Like, what is our purpose? Why are we doing everything we're doing, you know, trying to get to these goals for what reason? So I'd always had, so I'd always had some religion in my life.

[00:30:44] I was going to church. Praying like regularly, like, please gimme some answers. I, I, I was in such despair, so depressed, and I'd also like sidebar grown up always being athletic and active and a dancer and things that, that had always helped me. So I, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna try yoga. Maybe that will like help me.

[00:31:06] You know, bring me some peace. Help me get rid of some of this anxiety. So that is when my spiritual journey started in a, in a new direction. Did the yoga learned through yoga that there's a mind, body, spirit connection also there, there's meditation. Did that, and I actually should back up a little. In that process, when it got really dark, I did go to Western doctors.

[00:31:30] I did, I went and I went to therapists. I got medications and those were not helping me. And that actually made me more anxious and depressed because I thought, my God, if this is not helping me, like there's no hope, like there's, how am I getting out of this? So that almost made it worse, which is like, I feel like on a very deep level, my body was somehow rejecting it.

[00:31:52] It was like, no, you need to seek answers. This is not your answer. So. That's when I went back, I was like, okay, yoga, meditation, doing that. And then through that I learned about other healing modalities and, and that's when I learned about reiki and acupuncture. So that is what brought me to acupuncture in the first place.

[00:32:10] Like I. That desperate search for healing from the depression and anxiety that I was going through, which obviously there was so much behind it, so much spiritually behind it in the loss that I had suffered and not recognizing that and, and getting the answers I needed. So that is what brought me to acupuncture.

[00:32:28] Chandler Stroud: How many years ago was that, would you say? 

[00:32:31] Stephanie: I would say like 19 years ago probably. Yeah. And I did so with that piece when I learned it, I got to acupuncture through. Trying the infertility and it not working and thinking there's like, there's something wrong with my body, like my reproductive system, my hormones, all that kind of stuff.

[00:32:50] So then I, that's when I got to acupuncture. So that was like, yeah, like 19 years ago. And, and it did heal that. And I do have a fourth child because of that. So that's when I started learning, wait, acupuncture really works. It, it. So that was like step one. And now it's a whole new level. Being Jacque, like a whole new level of what acupuncture can do for you.

[00:33:09] So

[00:33:12] Chandler Stroud: Cassie Aradondo and Reverend Lizzie McManus Dale, you talked about going to church and prayer specifically and how you thought about kind of the aftermath of that. What role did spirituality play in your journey? Not necessarily even right after losing Amelia, but even growing up, like I'm just, I'm very curious to hear how that served you and guided you in life, and then certainly after experiencing the trauma that you endured in this childbirth.

[00:33:49] Kassy: As I said, I was a cradle Catholic. I love that 

[00:33:53] Chandler Stroud: term by the way. 

[00:33:55] Kassy: Born, born and raised in a Catholic church. And so like you go through phases, you know, churches, Ugh, mom, we gotta go again every Sunday. And then it became like, no mom, I'm good. Like you can go, just tell me about it when you come back. And we went back into the church.

[00:34:22] Which is when I took a look around and I said, you know what? This isn't aligning to what I feel is right. So I went looking, and thankfully because of COVID, I was able to look more thoroughly, which is when I found Lizzie. At that point, it became a choice. It became like, no, we're gonna go every Sunday.

[00:34:46] We're going to read our Bible. We are doing Bible study and Bible classes, and. If I can, we'll do like daily mass. I will say growing up faith always felt like it was a plan B, when something like bad was happening. That's what you reached out to. Now as an adult who made the choice and who keeps making that choice?

[00:35:13] Right? Through the loss and through Lizzie, it felt like I was reaching for faith. Because everything was crumbling and for the first time it felt like faith reached back. Like it wasn't just a one way. I was throwing my prayers out, hoping it was no, somebody is there, somebody is listening, somebody is walking this path with me and we'll be okay.

[00:35:46] We might not get. What we want. Right? At that point, I was praying for my baby to make it out alive for both of us to make it out alive, right? We might not get there, but at the very least, faith was holding my hand. Faith was cradling me in the situation I was in. And I'm very thankful that Faith hasn't let go.