Best of Hero & Psychotherapist Jen Baumgold

We’re looking back at some of the most inspiring moments from Chandler’s conversations with psychotherapist and EMDR specialist Jen Baumgold. On this Hero Highlight, Jen guides us through understanding trauma (big and small) and its profound effects on our nervous systems, relationships, and self-perception. From navigating shame and isolation to honoring protective mechanisms and employing healing practices, Jen shows us that we all carry stories that can be reshaped. 

Learn how to start embarking on a path toward healing by honoring your struggles, fostering compassion for yourself, and making peace with your past, one step at a time.

What You Will Learn

• [00:07:47] How trauma can manifest and become “stuck” in our nervous systems.
• [00:09:12] Why we form subconscious stories about ourselves — and how to interrupt them.
• [00:10:25] The power of resiliency and honoring your ability to heal.
• [00:11:45] How healing trauma helps us trust ourselves again.
• [00:13:18] What resourcing is and why it’s an essential step in healing.
• [00:16:58] Why small T trauma is often minimized and misunderstood.
• [00:18:15] The role shame, embarrassment, and loneliness can play in trauma.
• [00:19:13] Techniques for resourcing and choosing protective or nurturing figures.
• [00:21:59] How journaling and compassion aid in navigating difficult stories.
• [00:23:04] The significance of treating yourself with kindness and understanding.

 Want to Hear More from Hero Jen? Check Out These Episodes!

• Process Your Past for Peace in the Present with EMDR
• The Role of Resourcing in EMDR & Healing Trauma
• What We Say To Ourselves Matters, Including Negative Self-Talk
• Your 'Little t' Traumas Matter Too

Let’s Connect!
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Jen Baumgold

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Chandler Stroud

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Mixing and editing provided by Next Day Podcast.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Chandler Stroud: Hey guys, it's Chandler and welcome to The Healing Heroes.

[00:00:04] I'm Chandler Stroud, an executive wife and busy mom of two who after years of living with anxiety. Health struggles and an unshakeable feeling like I should be happier, made a profound discovery that changed everything. Join me on a journey where unexpected paths lead to healing and more happiness. On this show, we will explore unconventional ways to unlock more joy in your own life with the help of my very own healers.

[00:00:36] And trusted advisors, the Healing Heroes.

[00:00:43] Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Healing Heroes Podcast. I am your host, Chandler, and I'm so glad that you decided to join us today because as I've said in previous episodes. We have launched a very special series, and this is an honor of our one year anniversary. Coming up in July, we thought it would be helpful to allow our listeners to catch up with past episodes and get to know our heroes a little bit better, especially if you're a new listener joining the show.

[00:01:13] So from now until July, we are releasing dedicated episodes for each of our heroes that represent a curated. Look at some of our favorite moments from our past conversations together. So I'm thrilled you are here. And today we are featuring our psychotherapy and EMDR Hero Jen Baumgold. Now, I'm sure many of you are familiar with therapy, but just in case, a little bit of context for the clips that you'll hear in today's episode.

[00:01:48] Psychotherapy is really a guided healing process that helps you understand your emotions, heal past wounds, and learn healthier ways to cope with life's challenges. I like to say it's not about fixing yourself. It's about finding yourself and psychotherapy can help you do that in a very safe space where you can be honest, supported, and seen without judgment.

[00:02:15] One of the tools that Jen uses that I have done many, many times with her is EMDR therapy, which is a science backed approach to treating trauma that helps your brain safely process and release painful memories. EMDR gently helps your nervous system. Let go of whatever has been holding you back in life so that you can finally move forward with more peace, clarity, and confidence.

[00:02:45] I'm gonna be honest with you all. EMDR has been one of the most critical practices of my entire healing journey. Mostly because it unearthed beliefs and feelings that I had no idea were even present, and more so that we're controlling how I was showing up in the world without me even realizing it. I think so often we have these subconscious narratives playing in the back of our minds about.

[00:03:15] How we feel about ourself, our role in the world. And these narratives can be created from childhood experiences. They can be created from the things you learned in school, culturally, things your parents and your friends taught you or told you. Things that seem fairly innocuous or inconsequential. That actually had a lasting impact, and you don't even realize the role that they continue to play and how you show up day to day until you really learn how to be present in your body and feel through some of those memories.

[00:03:55] So often on the show we talk about. These subconscious narratives, these stories that we tell ourselves, a lot of that was happening below the surface and not in a place that I was conscious of it, and EMDR is an incredibly effective tool for excavating those scripts and changing them. Once and for all so that you can move forward with that peace and clarity that so many of us long for.

[00:04:22] And so I am thrilled to introduce my hero and psychotherapist, Jen Baum Gold. Enjoy.

[00:04:35] Jen Baumgold: EMDR stands for eye movement desensitization and Reprocessing, but we often just shorthanded as EMDR 'cause that's a lot easier to say. It's a treatment that was developed to treat trauma. And it works essentially by. Inducing eye movements. So if you think about REM sleep and how your eye, you know, and when we're in our REM sleep stage, our eyes move back and forth, you know, rapidly.

[00:04:59] And that's how we process things. So in EMDR, we use something to stimulate that movement in the therapy, which allows us to access trauma in a way that regular talk therapy can't. Traumatic memories get stored differently than our regular everyday memories. They get stuck in our central nervous system and then triggered when similar or.

[00:05:20] Experiences that are somehow related happen to us and EMDR helps to sort of adaptively process these memories in a way that it's stored like the rest of our memories. That it's, it's goes through the same mechanisms in our brain that, you know, going out and having lunch with a friend and having a regular neutral experience or positive experience is stored something that isn't traumatic.

[00:05:43] And EMDR focuses in doing that we focus on, you know, the actual. Physical memory, you know, in terms of the picture of it, how you imagine it in your mind, the where, where you feel it in your body and the embodiment of it, where it's located in your body, and the cognitive belief that goes with them. I like to think of it as like both sides of our brains communicating.

[00:06:05] You know, and something is stuck in the right part of your brain, which is the nonverbal emotional part. Trauma often gets stuck there, so this is allowing the left and the right to talk and bringing those two together, integrate something that is both cognitive and emotional.

[00:06:27] Chandler Stroud: I am curious how you've seen EMDR specifically help your patients. Why is it so effective? 

[00:06:32] Jen Baumgold: You know I had a client who was in a car accident and couldn't drive trauma, tends to pair things, so she began like to pair driving with the accident and with danger. So it became too dangerous to drive, which she then successfully was able to drive after EMDR sessions.

[00:06:49] I've had people who have specific phobias. That's another thing that EMDR can help with because oftentimes, again, those things are fused together. I had a client who never ate fruit and was in their sixties and. You know, didn't really view it as an issue. We had done EMDR around some other things, but it came up and so we did the EMDR on that and they were then able to eat fruit and it turned out that the fruit, you know, when we trace that back to childhood, was the way that they were able to gain control over their narcissistic mother by not eating the fruit.

[00:07:22] And then that became sort of wired together for their life until they were able to untangle that. And so, you know, it helps with specific phobias, it helps with single incident traumas. It helps in ways that are a little more subtle too. I think it, it can build capacity in people and create space and room for emotions or had been there but hadn't been able to really feel them before because the trauma was taking up so much space.

[00:07:47] So by being able to process that may not be as black and white as being able to drive or being able to eat a piece of fruit, suddenly it's. Okay. I feel differently or I, I have the capacity for empathy for someone that I didn't have before. So there's a number of different ways that it can help.

[00:08:11] Chandler Stroud: Can you explain what negative self-talk is and how it typically manifests in people's daily lives? 

[00:08:19] Jen Baumgold: Sure. Negative self-talk is. You know, sort of self-explanatory in that it's the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves and how we, you know, the beliefs that we might hold sometimes that we're aware of, sometimes that we're not aware of, and how that subconsciously and sometimes consciously impacts our behaviors, our relationships, our confidence, our how we, how we approach the world really, and when those are negative messages, I'm not worthy.

[00:08:50] I'm stupid. I'll never get this. I don't deserve this. I mean, there's, you know, as you said, tens of thousands of these thoughts that can go through our head in a day. They start to then impact how we act and how we perceive the world. So then the world kind of comes back at us in that way, right? If we're looking out through a negative lens.

[00:09:12] You are going to see negative things, and there's a confirmation bias in that. So if I believe that I'm not worthy of a promotion, I'm not worthy of getting paid what I deserve, and the underlying message is I'm not worthy, I then will subconsciously find evidence to support that. You know, I was passed over for a promotion, so clearly I'm not worthy.

[00:09:34] My boyfriend dumped me so clearly I'm not worthy. Whatever it could be and these things kind of pile up and then confirm what our original thesis was. Reinforcing a negative loop. Right. 

[00:09:45] Chandler Stroud: Yeah. I love that. A reinforcing negative loop. I think that's a really good visual and I love that you call out a can be subconscious and it could also be a very conscious practice that you're engaging in.

[00:09:57] You're 

[00:09:57] Jen Baumgold: coming from this negative place of I'm not worthy of love. Things that are not even related to you will start to be perceived as rejecting you over personalization. Yes. 

[00:10:06] Chandler Stroud: Yes. I think that's such an important point. You internalize this concept and you think it's about you when it has, in many cases, nothing to do with you, most cases.

[00:10:20] What has been the most surprising thing you've learned or seen along your journey to heal others? 

[00:10:25] Jen Baumgold: I'm always amazed by the resiliency of people come in and they have this story. That's so painful and a lot of times pervasive and has been with them for so long. Their ability to really heal through it is incredible.

[00:10:42] You know, just to even step into this room I think is intimidating. And I'm just always amazed at the resilience that they show me again and again, you know these people are coming in and healing themselves, you know, and it doesn't matter how old they are or what they've been through, and I'm just impressed with that.

[00:11:04] Chandler Stroud: Yeah. It's a hard thing to decide. You wanna do that kind of work. Mm-hmm. And go all in the way that EMDR really takes you there. Yeah. I've certainly found working with you pretty transformational in a lot of ways, and I'm curious how you've seen EMDR specifically help people reconnect with themselves on a deeper level.

[00:11:25] Jen Baumgold: I think trauma disconnects us from ourself can create these faulty beliefs. It can can really impact our ability to trust our judgment, our intuition ourselves. So by healing that or by integrating the trauma into our lives through EMDR, it creates a bigger connection to oneself. You know, you begin to trust your judgment.

[00:11:45] Again, trust your intuition and understand parts of yourself that maybe just seemed mysterious before. 

[00:11:53] Chandler Stroud: I think the other thing that. I've felt with you in some of our sessions is that it also allows you to go back and give yourself what you didn't get. Yes. In the moment of the trauma and Absolutely. I emphasize that because so much of the emotion for me was packed in to seeing this 9-year-old girl feeling scared alone, really helpless.

[00:12:22] Abandoned in some ways or more so just unseen by the world, and to go back and visualize my present day self, giving her a hug and giving her what she needs in that moment is so powerful. And I cannot, I cannot speak to the significance for everyone because I think the experience is different depending on what.

[00:12:51] Holding onto, but going back and figuring out how to give yourself something that you didn't get or receive. As a young child is the most powerful medicine on the planet.

[00:13:09] Can you share a little bit more about what resourcing is in the context of EMDR therapy and why it's such an important piece of the process? 

[00:13:18] Jen Baumgold: Essentially, when I think of resourcing, I think of regulating our nervous system and using your imagination to do that. If you think about how you feel when you imagine something, right?

[00:13:30] Like our nervous system, that, that part that regulates us, you know, whether we're in fight or flight or rest and digest, or, you know, if we're anxious or worried or we're, you know, feeling good and, and connected. If you think about that and you think about your imagination, and the, the example I always use is like, if you go see a horror movie, you know it's fake.

[00:13:49] You're in the movie theater, you're watching it at home. It's obviously not happening, but your body reacts to it in a, in, you know, a fear state as if it's actually happening to you. You know, if you wake up from a dream that's clearly your imagination and you have a reaction to it, an emotional reaction to it, your bo, you're gonna feel that in your body.

[00:14:06] So our body, our nervous system. It doesn't know when things are real or imagined, right? So that can be disruptive in terms of trauma and triggers, but it can also be adaptive and restorative in terms of resourcing. So when we use that to really come up with things that make us feel a certain way, like in a positive direction, so.

[00:14:27] That maybe make us feel safe or whole or peaceful, like you were talking about the lion powerful and really getting a felt sense of that in your imagination. So resourcing is kind of finding those experiences that every one of us has. And, and no matter how much trauma you've been through, you can find these moments, even if they're only a few seconds, you know, of feeling loved, of feeling safe, of feeling, even just warm or whole.

[00:14:54] And a lot of times people struggle with just finding that little piece, but if we dig deep enough, you can find it and draw that out and really sort of, I. Build it right, build it up, strengthen it. Why that's so important in EMDR is I think, you know, you're going into this trauma processing, so you're not gonna go into a fight without your armor.

[00:15:15] And I think the resourcing kind of builds that up for you and allows you to know that you have these ex, these internal resources, these things inside you, things that you've experienced that you can draw on. We do it before EMDR processing so that if. EMDR can be tough. You can, you can go into very like severe emotional states and having that to kind of draw back on, right?

[00:15:39] Or to close the session. Like we've used that before. Like, let's bring in this resource to get you out of that traumatic memory and close it up and it's not here anymore. It's not floating around in your nervous system. You're sort of ending on a, on a more positive memory, positive felt experience. I think about that is we're so.

[00:15:57] Negatively biased. Like there's a negative cognitive bias within us that has served us for millions of years. It's, you know, evolutionarily adaptive to skew things to the negative because then you're gonna be prepared, you're gonna be prepared to fight or flee, right? So if you think about even just, you know, the tribes, I always use this example, if you have two tribes and one sees the rock in the distance as a rock, and the other sees the rock in the distance as a lion, you know.

[00:16:26] Nine times outta 10. If it's a rock, you're fine. But that one time, it's the lion that entire lineage is, is. Wiped out. So that evolutionary advantage goes to negative thinking, so we're biased towards it. It is harder to draw, and especially when you've been through significant trauma, it's harder to find and draw on those more positive experiences that are in your memory and are in your nervous system.

[00:16:49] So resourcing really. Seeks to find those, draw them out and strengthen them.

[00:16:58] Chandler Stroud: Why do you think small T traumas are often overlooked or minimized? Knowing that they are rooted in social connections, which are so important for thriving and happiness and feeling safe. In your day to day, 

[00:17:12] Jen Baumgold: I think, you know, part of our natural response to trauma is avoidance. It's one of the defenses we used against it.

[00:17:17] So you'll hear somebody who's undergone a pretty significant even big T trauma question, whether that really happened to them, or they may experience something like depersonalization or, you know, separation from themselves. In little t traumas, we tend to do that by rationalizing saying that, okay, this isn't a big deal.

[00:17:36] It's happened to everybody, you know? So what if I lost my job? You know, so many people have lost their jobs before me, and so why am I reacting to it this way? It's, it's constantly minimized, and I think that's a way of trying to cope with the feelings and make it better. It can actually make it worse in that it kind of compounds shame on top of something traumatic that's happened to us.

[00:17:58] So we're not only feeling that response to the little t trauma, but we're also berating ourselves and shaming ourselves, which is gonna lead us to maybe not talk about it so much to keep it secret and, you know, kind of grows on on itself at that point. 

[00:18:15] Chandler Stroud: Do you think shame is the most common? Reaction, or should I say like the most common emotion associated with small T traumas?

[00:18:27] Jen Baumgold: I think it can be shame, it can be, you know, various forms of humiliation, embarrassment. A lot of times it can be feelings of loneliness. You know, no one else really understands this, even though maybe so many people have gone through it, they aren't reacting the way that I have, so therefore there's something wrong with me.

[00:18:45] Which I guess leads back to shame. So they're all sort of interrelated, but I would say it's, it's. Probably the biggest one. I'd imagine there's a lot of, you know, sometimes there can be sadness and grief, isolation, you know, in involved with it. In that thinking that no one's gonna understand why you are reacting to this in this way.

[00:19:07] Chandler Stroud: Can you describe some common resourcing techniques that are used and how they benefit clients? 

[00:19:13] Jen Baumgold: I learned, and I, I've still practice, you know, in preparation for EMDR, doing the peaceful place like we talked about. And again, that's, and we always say real or imagined that you've been to or wanna go to, because, you know, I've had everything from like, oh, that beach that I went to in college to, you know, this mountain house that I've.

[00:19:32] Conjured up in my mind. That's all, you know, made of glass and overlooks the sea. And it's very, you know, so people can imagine anything, right? Or they can remember it. And then we also use the protective figure or power figure, which you were talking about. And yes, animals are a huge one too. I always, you know, I try and preface it with person or animal, dead or alive, real or imagined, you know?

[00:19:55] You know, or you don't know. So then there's the protective figure and the nurturing figure. And these are people, animals, they can be deities that when you think of them, you feel a sense of being nurtured and cared for and, you know, warmth. And the same thing with protective figure power, strength, protected.

[00:20:16] And really, again, getting that felt sense in your body, in your mind of what it's like. And sometimes people will just sit there and, and imagine like what it feels like to hug their grandmother, right? Or you know, their childhood dog. And I think we have such memories of these things, you know. Or, you know, even people use tv, television characters or movie characters, or book characters.

[00:20:37] What it would feel like. I had one client who had Oprah as her nurturing figure. 

[00:20:41] Chandler Stroud: I mean, amen to that. I get that wholeheartedly Oprah all day. 

[00:20:46] Jen Baumgold: And she was like, I imagine having tea with Oprah. And I was like, I wanna have tea. And I could really feel her like sitting there talking to Oprah, having tea. And Oprah would just be like, so warm and, and, you know, nurturing.

[00:20:57] So it's really the same way that you know, any MDR. We talk about like where you feel that in your body and what the emotion is. What the belief is is we really. Flesh this out too, right? Like where, what is the sensation that goes with it? Is it warmth? Is it like coziness? Is it, you know strength, power, like heat, whatever it could be, you know?

[00:21:22] Really getting that sense in your body,

[00:21:28] like you said, recognizes themselves. That's like sort of the first. Sense of awareness that, okay, maybe this just isn't who I am, right? I don't have to believe the story I've been telling myself this whole time, and it starts with that. I think, you know, if therapy is accessible to you, finding a therapist to talk to about this, that you trust, somebody that you feel a connection with, that you can, you know, you feel is safe to talk about this with.

[00:21:59] That would be my first. Sort of recommendation if that's not something that's available to you, maybe journaling about it. Understanding, okay, you know, this sounds familiar and I do have this, this really like persistent negative belief about myself writing it out and trying to find the evidence for it and the evidence against it.

[00:22:22] You know, oftentimes we'll surprise ourselves with how much evidence we can find. Against what we actually, the negative beliefs that we have. But I think really, you know, the awareness is, is the first part of it. And, and finding that self-compassion. Would you treat somebody else this way? You know, anybody that you know would, if they had gone through this experience, would you be like, oh, that's not a big deal.

[00:22:44] You know, most people wouldn't. And oftentimes when we do that, it's really a projection of what's going on for us. So even when we are doing that to someone else, it's really not because we think that it's because we're feeling that. 

[00:22:57] Chandler Stroud: Yeah, I think that's spot on. I really do. And we talk all the time on the show about how do you show yourself self-compassion?

[00:23:04] Imagine you were talking to your niece or nephew or some other person that you love, right? We treat everyone else with such. Different levels of acceptance and grace than we often give ourselves. Yeah. So I think it's a really powerful reminder. Absolutely. Jen, thank you so much for being here. This was such a great conversation and I know it's gonna help so many of our listeners.

[00:23:29] Jen Baumgold: Absolutely. I'm so happy to be here, Chandler, and I hope that it does. 

[00:23:32] Chandler Stroud: And to those tuning in, if you like today's discussion, please share it with friends and don't forget to subscribe to the show. You can also visit healing Heroes podcast.com to get resources, meet the heroes, and share your ideas for future episodes.

[00:23:47] Thanks for listening everyone, and until next time, remember, be curious, be courageous, and be kind to yourself. You've got this.